Re: Gung Ho, Racism, and more insane howling

[michaelo <makoamok>]

I think this response is a little harsh for a newcomer to the group.  More
than that, I think it's a little off-target.

This discussion group is like a party. All are welcome. Mingling is
encouraged but if in doing so someone really pisses me off, I wouldn't pick
a fight, I'd move on to someone else.  A discussion group, computer or not,
ceases to be informative and entertaining when it's thrust is
fingerpointing.  I appreciative volatile opinions that are honest and
well-intentioned. The motivation behind the message is at least as important
as the message itself.

Patti is a poet and words are her allies. Words have myriad meanings and in
context can have even opposite meanings.  I don't haul out the dictionary
everytime Patti (or anyone else) utters an opinion. I try not to rail
against someone either unless I know their story and Olsen's two pieces of
email do not an autobiography make.

Right now, however, I will look up "discussion" and "entertainment."

michaelo, who has read Olsen's and LKG's message several times.





> From: LKG <Lkg>
> Reply-To: babel-list
> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 05:33:06 -0500
> To: babel-list
> Subject: Re: Gung Ho, Racism, and more insane howling
>
> Actually the people who are "horrified" are more like yourself,
> asserting that on this list naught should be expressed but
> lock-step reverence for everything issuing from the mouth or pen
> of Patti. Do your "quotes" actually quote anyone, or re-interpret
> what you think you read? I have no time to go thru all the posts,
> but I think the *general* gist of this thread has been some folks
> saying they like/love most or all of rNrN, but wondering if some
> hearing it for the first time in a concert setting, might be offended
> by, or drawn for the wrong reasons to, hearing a bunch of almost all
> white folks shouting "Nigger! Nigger! Nigger!" Even Patti (under
> pressure or on her own?) decided not to do the song for the recent TV
> broadcast, though she's been doing it at most all live performances,
> which are usually attended by those quite familiar with her work.
>
> I don't even recall, from the few "heretics" (as it seems you might
> call them), any *definitive* statement on whether it would or wouldn't
> be wrong or right for Patti to want someone's first encounter of her
> to be hearing her and her fairly pale fans shouting the word "Nigger."
> Most were just expressing thoughts about how it might make *them*
> feel. Which prompted *all* these responses, like yours, wanting any
> "anti"-rNrN thoughts verbotenized. Instead of "I don't agree, and
> here's why," it's just like "bunch of PC wrong-thinking assholes!"
>
> Then there was a sub-thread on whether white American art-rebels'
> travails could really compare to those of the US' African
> slave-descended. Which thread engendered what might now be
> characterized as the typical responses of "shut up, how dare you
> question our suffering and street-cred" (sarcastic not-real quote).
>
> I don't recall anyone on this list calling Patti a racist. (If you
> have real quotes, please refresh while I find my Gingko Biloba.)
> When one publishes as many serious words as Ms. Smith does, certainly
> some will cause discussion, and even questioning, oh my! If you're so
> against thought/expression-control, then why are you so quick to be
> so shocked and appalled by a fan-list with people who only agree on
> Patti being a fuckin' great poet/rock artist, and who don't toe one
> single line of thought/expression, and who aren't afraid, despite
> virulent disagreement, to say whatever the fuck they think about her
> work? You remind me of Bill Maher, who I think helped coin the phrase
> "Politically Correct" so he could rail against it, picking out (or
> making up) whatever article or sentence supports his view, and
> ignoring (or disappearing) all other arguments and logic. I don't know
> anyone sensible who thinks about being "PC," just about decent human
> behavior, which imho is defined anew per each situation. No rules.
>
> I swan, this is the last I have to say on this...so I hope I made
> some kind of sense amidst the verbal diarrhea. As I quoted (Sly Stone)
> in another post just now: "And not a word could change a thing."
>
> :} Lkg
>
> "Michael S. Olsen" <Soendberg-Olsen> wrote:
>
>> Imagine my surprise when I saw the people, on a
>> mailing-list about Patti, actually being horrified and
>> put off by that song. I sat there, reading my mail and
>> shaking my head. I mean, if the song was meant to be
>> AGAINST racism, among other things, then what's so wrong
>> about using the n-word? "Oh, but it's a derogatory slur!
>> and bla-bla-blahh..."
>> [...]
>> PC is too much like a kind of thought-control. "It is
>> illegal for you to act this way (okay by me), and just to
>> make sure, you're not even allowed to THINK it."(Wrong).
>> Do I sympathize with racists and other hate-mongers? No.
>> Do I believe that if free speech is too hold any true
>> meaning it MUST be free for all people and all views? Yes.
>> As Vaclav Havel said: "Think of free speech this way. It is
>> not there because of the view you hold most dear, but
>> because of the one you despise the most". We can't wave
>> free speech in front of somebody and say: "WE can say what
>> WE believe, but YOU can't even breathe a word". Then free
>> speech has no meaning, and in the end we will all pay for it.
>
>